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360 joints in the human body
keepopenminded Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 18:07:39	Prior to 1995 it was thought that there are 340 joints in the human body. In 1995 a scientific institute proved that the internal ear consists of 10 joints each. Thus 20 joints were added and the discovery was made that the human body consists of 360 joints. Islam says this before 14 centuries: "Aisha reported Allah's Messenger (Prophet Mohammad may peace be upon him) as saying: Every one of the children of Adam has been created with three hundred and sixty joints; so he who declares the Glory of Allah, praises Allah, declares Allah to be One, Glorifies Allah, and seeks forgiveness from Allah, and removes stone, or thorn, or bone from people's path, and enjoins what is good and forbids from evil, to the number of those three hundred and sixty, will walk that day having removed himself from Hell. (Translation of Sahih Muslim)
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 19:59:48	Keepo - you and your religion are nothing more than WANTON FAKES - Your brand of Islam islike the proverbial second-hand car salesman. Give us he name of this 'Scientific Institute'! As for Islams claim for knowledge of '360 joints'...well, ARE THERE 360? This number was well known OVER 800 YEARS IN CHINA BEFORE YOUR 'PROPHET' - (China - Lu Pi-Wei) - IT WAS MORE OF A MYSTICAL NUMBER, WELL KNOWN IN A PLACE LIKE THE MECCAN TRADE ROUTE. ARE YOU REALLY SUGGESTING TEN JOINTS IN THE EAR WHERE UNKNOWN TO SCIENCE BEFORE 1995? Rubbish! You and your Islamic religious 'science' are the worst kind of fakes - decietful and lying snakes.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 20:06:15	Oh and just one more point - you stated 'before 1995...it was thought', so if in say 10 years time another 'Scientfic Institute' declares another say 15 joints - will you come here ranting how your 'Prophet' got it wrong? Or will you fit the facts to suit your religious fakery?
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 20:21:05	I already have - most speak of 230, but iT IS NOT FIXED - even so, this proves CONFUCIAN CHINESE foretold it 800 years before your prophet! But it's not - what it does prove is a religion like Islam so desperate to validate itself, it needs to steal scientific discoveries and lie about dates and facts. Are you so desperate because Islam has produced virually NOTHING of scientific value since the before Enlightenment? Where are the Islamic Jenna's/Pastuers/Erlich's? You and your decietful lying 'scientific theologians' ought to hang your heads in shame.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 20:44:44	I deduce by your inadequate response Keepo, that you admit the pernicious nature of your Islamic 'theologians'. You really must not believe what your Imams tell you WITHOUT CROSS-REFERENCING, OR INVESTIGATING their ridiculous assumptions. You have parroted them over and again here, and have always been found wanting - try some objectivity for once.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
keepopenminded Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:05:23	littlemisssunshine? I see that you send insults under your advice message, this is not a good method, anyway I'm not going to take your post on consideration as you said in it . As for you socrates, what? you cannot be sure that there are 360 joints to prouve that I'm liar? what about you mightywizz?
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:12:32	No Keepo - YOU POSITED A HYPOTHESIS, THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO PRDOUCE YOUR 'EVIDENCE': ie. Which 'Scientific Institute' delivered this 'new' discovery'? AS many medical bodies refer to 230 joints, WHICH BODY DO YOU REFER TO? Finally, DO YOU ACCEPT THE NUMBER 360 JOINTS WAS WELL KNOWN 800 YEARS BEFORE ISLAM WAS EVER HEARD OF? I can PROVE this. Answers when you are ready - or will you do what you usually do - defer proof to others.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
keepopenminded Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:16:22	Please littlemisssunshine keep youself away, I like play with socrates and mightywizz, we enjoy this, I know with whom should I debate and with whom should I play, and if you remember I think you had many dabates with me and I think you said that I'm good in dabate what makes you change you point of view about me. I do respect you, so please respect me. As for you insult in the message I don't like the way you adressed the words, and you know well what I mean. ---------- Socrates please check this : [censored]elnaggarzr[censored]/en/main.php?id =9
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
soul_survivor Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:20:32	I'm not too keen to post on a religious thread but I will say that the book, is it the Koran? Was, if it did say that, almost certainly NOT refering to physical joints that provide flexible connections between bones. I've done some anatomy and physiology though, and I'll post what is popularly considered the acurate number of joints next. Just don't involve me in a religious debate.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
soul_survivor Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:23:12	Answer to How Many Joints in the Human Body There is no definitive answer to this question. The first problem is that the number of bones in a body changes. A fetus has about 300 bones, but by the time of birth, many of them have fused together. The average adult human has 206 bones. Also, what constitutes a "joint" is problematic. The skull is made up of a number of bony plates that knit together along their edges into a permanently fused structure that we think of as a single unit. Do we count each of those plates and where they meet each distinct other plate as a "joint"? Consequently, there is no simple or reliable answer to this question. The number is certainly in the range of the mid-200s to the mid-300s.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:26:54	Your not getting off with it that easy! I WANT YOUR 'PROOFS', IN YOUR WORDS. I'm not p*ssing around on some obscure websites because YOU are UNABLE to validate your silly assumptions! 1.FOR THE LAST TIME,GIVE ME THE NAME OF 'SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTE' WHO MAKES THIS CLAIM! 2.DO YOU ACCEPT THIS FIGURE OF 360 WAS KNOWN LONG BEFORE MUHAMMAD? 3. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A 'JOINT'? If you can't answer - don't bother putting up a 'smokescreen' again.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:36:36	Ah ha ha! Oh dear oh dear! Poor Keepo! Your 'evidence' is so sparse, you are speechless! I WANT ANSWERS FROM YOU FIRST! You seem lost Without your Imams to parrot. I think I have proved my point - DON'T POST ASSUMPTIONS HERE WITHOUT EVIDENCE TO BACK THEM UP!
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:51:32	Lu Pi-Wei (239BC China) Refers to "...360 joints of the human body" Dong Zhongshu (circa 190 BC) Ditto. However, this figure was used in a mystical sense being close to the days of the year. Mecca, being a trade route,copied this. You obviously have a middle-eastern way of conducting a debate - here, if we state a hypothesis, we usually have to prove it - it is not for others to disprove it. FINALLY - THERE IS NO FIXED NUMBER OF JOINTS IN THE HUMAN BODY - GO ASK YOUR LOCAL NHS.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
keepopenminded Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:53:29	littlemisssunshine, I think you know socrates and mightywizz and elephant as a team that were always against me and they're who cause trouble in my threads, so I'm not trying to convince them, I'm just enjoying play with. As for religion, I'm not a guardian over people to convince them, they have their own mind and they know what is best for them and they're able to choose their ways regardless if I arguie with them or not, but you know well I'm not arguing except with the known team As for you you know well my opinion about you so please littlemisssunshine try one time to understand me and don't judge my deeds so fast. Thank you for your understanding.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
soul_survivor Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 21:56:28	This is my last post on this subject, and it appears to me that for someone with a username keep open minded, you really are not. The reason why I tell you the FACTS about the number of joints in the human body is because that is a known quantity, as best they can work it out, although it is not even the number that you are stating. I have to side with Socrates when he said that the whole substance of this thread is fake. Even your facts are wrong, and the only thing that is accurate at all is the religious quote, although even that is a translation. I repeat again... There is no definitive answer to this question. The first problem is that the number of bones in a body changes. A fetus has about 300 bones, but by the time of birth, many of them have fused together. The average adult human has 206 bones. Also, what constitutes a "joint" is problematic. The skull is made up of a number of bony plates that knit together along their edges into a permanently fused structure that we think of as a single unit. Do we count each of those plates and where they meet each distinct other plate as a "joint"? Consequently, there is no simple or reliable answer to this question. The number is certainly in the range of the mid-200s to the mid-300s. Okay?
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
trumpeter61 Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:00:58	There is also the great library of Alexandria, which would have housed the foremost medical journals of the day. In the past it was assumed the great library was burnt down after the great Arab invasion, but in fact this has been proved a myth....so its also very likely scholors from many centuries before would have had access to such medical records.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:02:46	A Team! Oh ho ho! If you insist on posting absolute lies about something you know little about, what do you expect? Besides, I have an angel who visits and tells me what is truth - now by your logic, you have to PROVE I do not. That is how sensible your method of debate is.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:13:50	So to sum up, It is irrefutable that: FACT :THERE IS NO FIXED NUMBER OF JOINTS IN THE HUMAN BODY FACT : NO INDEPENDENT 'BODY/INSTITUTE' STATES THIS. FACT : THE NUMBER 360 WAS INDICATED MORE 800 YEARS BEFORE MUHAMMAD, AND THE NUMBER IS MORE ESOTERIC THAN LITERAL - MUSLIMS MISTAKENLY TOOK IT LITERALLY. QED.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
soul_survivor Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:13:52	The word "Sulama" in Arabic refers to the joint. It can be also used for all the body bones and the joints between them. Most of the body bones are movable, but some are fixed as those of the skull. The Explanation of the Hadith The hadith clearly directs Muslims to be grateful to Allah, the Almighty, Who dignifies and honors man, over all other creatures, by giving him a straight upright skeleton. It has been created of a huge number of big and small bones and cartilage. Between every two bones, there is a joint to enable the bones and to protect the body's soft parts. These joints enable the person to stand up, sit down, lie on his side, bend, stretch, etc. Every Muslim who worships Allah, Glorified be He, must be grateful to Allah for every one of these joints, and offer a charitable act, in way of gratitude to His Creator, for this great blessing, without which life would have been impossible. It is amazing that the Prophet (PBUH) mentioned the number of the body joints so precisely, at a time when nobody had any idea about human anatomy. Even now in the 21st century, many people still do not know the number of joints in their bodies, including many professors of orthopedics. I asked many of them, and their answer was between 200 and 300 bones, and around 100-300 joints. Likewise, many international encyclopedias avoid giving an exact number of bones and joints of the human skeleton by classifying them into major groups or subdivision. The Encyclopedia Britannica classified them into three subdivisions: 1-The Axial Skeleton: which consists of the bones of the vertebral column and the majority of the skull bones. 2- The Visceral Skeleton: which consists of the thorax ( the ribs and the breastbones), the lower jaw and some parts of the upper jaw. 3- The Appendicular Skeleton: which consists of the bones of the pelvic girdles, shoulders and limbs. The Hatchinson Encyclopedia, published in 1995, mentioned that the number of bones in a human skeleton is only 206 bones. In his book titled, "The Journey of Faith inside the Human Body", Dr.Hamid Ahmed Hamid mentioned that the total number of the human body joints is exactly 360, as the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) stated 1400 years ago. According to Dr. Hamid, the details of these bones are as follows: First: 147 joints in the vertebral column 25 joints between the vertebrae. 72 joints between the vertebrae and the ribs. Second: 24 joints in the thorax 2 joints between the bones of the sternum and the thoracic cage. 18 joints between the sternum and the ribs. 2 joints between the clavicle and the scapulae (shoulder blade). 2 joints between the scapulae and the thorax. Third: 86 joints in the upper extremity 2 joints between the scapular bones. 6 joints between the elbows. 8 joints between the wrists. 70 joints between the hand bones. Fourth: 92 joints in the lower extremity 2 hip joints. 6 joints between the knee bones. 6 joints between the ankles. 74 joints between the feet bones. Fifth: 11 joints in the Pelvis 4 joints between the coccyx vertebrae. 6 joints between the bones acetabulm. 1 joint of the pubic sumphysis. Total number of joints: 360 Those joints, mentioned in the hadith, are the movable joints in the human body, which give the ability to the vertebral column and hence the whole body to move freely. The immovable joints, as those joining the skull bones, are not counted here. The movable ones are also known as "The Synovial joints", for they contain a fluid known as the "Synonvial fluid". This fluid allows friction-free allows friction-free movement of the bones by reducing direct contact. For example, the hip joint, composed of a ball-like head of the femur that fits into a socket-like depression of the pelvis bone, makes the hip and the whole leg movements easy and flexible. Another example is the Hinge joint, which enables man to easily bend his leg. Another type of joints is called "The Gliding joints" as that of the radiocarpal (wrist) joint. In this joint, the facing bone surfaces are in most cases flat, allowing the bones to glide freely in several directions. The joint between the two upper vertebrae has a special structure. It allows the side movement of the head, through the rotation of the ball-like head of one vertebra into the socket-like depression of the other vertebra. Were it not for the joints created by Allah the Almighty, man would not have been able to move one bone in his body. The defect in one joint causes a lot of pain and problems.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
soul_survivor Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:20:02	Above is the text of your argument. Now I'm not a medical expert, and apart from briefly looking at the 'Virtual Human' I don't know enough to say 'Yay or Nay' to whether this is true or not. I know what the Internet tells me which is that the number of joints is not fixed. Other then that I know that 360 has always been a mystical number, way back to when base 12 was part of the calander. On that note I will leave this in the capable hands of people who fancy a debate this evening Thanks for the link, Keepopenminded, as you can see I did look and read.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:34:54	You cannot be serious! You can actually gve credence to this 'Islamic Academy of Sciences'! This is a contradiction in terms if ever there was one! This institution bases its 'scientific research' on the premise that the Quran ALREADY HAS THE ANSWERS! THE 'RESEARCH' CONCLUSIONS MUST COINCIDE WITH QURANIC EDICTS/SURA'S! HO HO HO! DON'T YOU SEE? THEY ALREADY HAVE THE ANSWERS - ALL THEIR 'SCIENTISTS' NEED TO DO IS FIT A HYPOTHESIS TO A SURA/HADITH, THEN BINGO! IF IT DOESN'T, WELL THE SCIENCE MUT BE WRONG, COS' THE QURAN CANNOT BE!. Oh what a wonderful way to conduct a 'scientific' experiment/conclusion!
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
mightywurlitzer Date: 2009-03-16 Time: 22:51:11	its a miracle People who lived 1400 years ago could read Roughly 850 years before the time when Muhammad claimed prophethood, we are told that the following was taught in Chinese philosophy: In the Springs and Autumns of Lü Pu-wei (Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu, ca. 239 B.C.), ... The next two examples of relations between the cosmos and the body are perhaps two centuries earlier, and are more general. They come from Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu. They are not particularly early in the history of microcosmic correspondences, but rather exhibit their full development in philosophical writing. Human beings have 360 joints, nine body openings, and five yin and six yang systems of function. In the flesh tightness is desirable; in the blood vessels (hsueh mai) free flow is desirable; in the sinews and bones solidity is desirable; in the operations of the heart and mind harmony is desirable; in the essential ch'i regular motion is desirable. When [these desiderata] are realized, illness has nowhere to abide, and there is nothing from which pathology can develop. When illness lasts and pathology develops, it is because the essential ch'i has become static. ... AND Under Emperor Wu of the Han dynasty, Confucianism was adopted as the official creed of the state. The most influential Confucian thinker of the time was Dong Zhongshu (195?–105? BCE), who in his writings argued clearly and forcefully for the view that Heaven and human beings combine to form a single entity. In his Chunqiu fanlu or Luxuriant Gems of the Spring and Autumn Annals, in the section entitled "How human Beings Second the Numbers of Heaven," he states: "Human beings have 360 joints because this exactly matches the number of Heaven’s DAYS. Their bodies, their bones and flesh, match the thickness of the earth. Their ears and eyes are bright and keen like the qualities of the sun and moon, and in their bodies there are hollows and veins like the configurations of the rivers and valleys." The belief that the human body has 360 joints was already nearly 900 YEARS old at the time of Muhammad and may even have been common knowledge in Muhammad's environment. No supernatural revelation is needed to determine the number of joints. A complete and detailed autopsy may be a tedious task, but it was perfectly possible to do so in Muhammad's time. Muhammad's claim about the number of joints is wrong in two respects: Muhammad's assumption that all humans have the same number of joints is wrong. Muhammad's claim that the human body has 360 joints is wrong also for the average adult person. Muhammad's statements on the issue are at best very imprecise, but more likely they are plain contradictory. Therefore they can hardly be considered as scientific statements. We do not even know whether he is talking about bones or joints.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
mightywurlitzer Date: 2009-03-17 Time: 14:46:53	keepope If you like soul survivor's debating style so much WHY dont you copy it It would be wonderful for you to actually debate SOMETHING on this thread instead of your usual preaching and then refusing to discuss when people point out that the science you are in awe of, in the Qur'an, is the science ahich was known at the time it was "revealed"
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
freddo1939 Date: 2009-03-17 Time: 17:08:30	If your mohammed was so- so clever all those years ago--- how is it you`ve stood still ever since. It wouldn`t be because your spending all your time learning parrot fashion all that sh 1t he left behind --- would it.......?????.... and have no time left to furthur mankinds knowledge.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
socrates Date: 2009-03-17 Time: 20:15:18	They also refuse to understand there is no such thing as 'Islamic Science' - there is only science. This 'Islamic Scientific Institute' in Cairo Keepo speaks of, is a mockery of science. Just look at there website - an attempt to blend Islam and 'science' - just like Christianity did at the time of Galileo - this is the stage Islamic 'science' is at now - a blend of medieval doctrine with Western discoveries, and the theft of scientific dynamics. Incidentley, I e-mailed these charlatons for an answer on this very question - so far, no answer. Perhaps they will burn us (or stone us) as heretics.
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Re: 360 joints in the human body
gingergimp Date: 2009-05-03 Time: 03:12:22	sinse you like numbers and are one of these sad people who finds hidden meanings in numbers you sad pathetic person check this out,p.s nice computer your using not made by muslims is it now hmmmm no![censored]telegraph[censored]news/uknews/2 111174/Intelligent-people-less-likely-to-beli eve-in-God.html
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