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Top :: General ::Debates::
There Is No War On Terror. |
martyn_
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 20:39:02
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Is the 'war on terror' just another
government smoke-screen for the removal of
our civil liberties and the undercover
introduction to a big brother society?
"The fight against terrorism on the streets
of Britain is not a war. It is the prevention
of crime, the enforcement of our laws and the
winning of justice for those damaged by their
infringement." - Ken Macdonald, director of
public prosecutions.
There is no "war on terror." The invasion and
occupation of Iraq are not part of a "war on
terror." Neither are the current threats and
war preparations against Iran. The "war on
terror" doesn't exist—no matter how many
times the Bush administration cites it to
justify its aggressions, no matter how often
Republicans and Democrats debate how to best
carry it out, and no matter how frequently
it's referenced in the U.S. bourgeois media.
What does exist is a horrific and criminal
U.S. war OF terror against the people of the
world for greater empire. The attacks of
Sept. 11 gave the U.S. rulers an opening to
launch this war, but it has nothing to do
with halting unjust violence or "terror," nor
is it fundamentally aimed at stopping future
Sept. 11's (and the full truth about the U.S.
government's role that day is still not
known) or "protecting" those living in the
U.S. or anywhere else. Instead, it has
everything to do with waging unbounded war to
solidify and extend the U.S. imperialist
system's killing grip on the planet and its
people.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 21:25:23
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martyn_:For once you said something a agree
with lol.Must check if ive bumped my
head.There Is No War On Terror.True its a war
agains your Human rights. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 22:21:40
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The US now has an emerging rival in China.
It's already showing its imperialist
credentials in Africa - so in say 10 - 15
years time the US will have a Global rival.
Happy days ahead. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
dougmckenzie
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:23:46
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Martyn, your use of the words 'bourgeois and
imperialist' gave me the inclination to think
before I put finger to keyboard.
I fought against terrorism in Northern
Ireland for some years and although not happy
with the final outcome, it is better than
walking the streets worrying about if a bomb
going off in your vicinity.
The threat is now different - I never had to
worry about suicide bombers, my concern was
to cover any potential escape routes.
The 'war on terror' is a truism and it will
not go away in the foreseeable future. The
USA is not empire building, it is trying to
introduce democracy to states where human
rights matter not a jot.
We should be behind them.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
martyn_
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:32:49
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Doug, many of us are asleep and have been put
to sleep by the rhetoric of democracy. And
what a democracy! The Greeks would be
laughing in hysterics!
Many people believe they went to war, and
their soldiers were oh so brave unawares that
the very people who were sending them to
these battle-torn countries (and not so
battle-torn countries) were the one's pushing
their imperialist agenda.
Where does oil come from? What is a
convenient excuse and cover to go to war but
to bring democracy and bring "peace" to a
culture that did very well without it
before?
When 'we bring democracy' to other countries;
that is the smoke screen created by the
imperialist agenda of democratic governments
to rape the land, to enslave the people and,
whirl (and pound signs) before their eyes,
tell them its all part of the grand plan.
You don't honestly believe that the
government has the interests of the people at
heart? Have you not heard? Have you not seen?
Have your instincts been blunted?
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:44:19
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dougmckenzie o you understand the
republicans were fighting for the brits out
of Ireland and for a united Ireland.Its was
the Brittish army who were the terrorists.As
for jumping into bed with the U.S Fooook
that.Wonder what rich country out there is
hopeing they wont be next to be liberated! by
U.S.A . |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
steamy1966
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:53:58
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there is a double story to this,(1)we have
invaded there lands because of mainly oil.we
call it human rights against inhumame
leadership/religion.(have you ever noticed we
never invade countries that have no value to
us.(2)like the christians who went around the
world trying to convert ppl to
cristianity,the muslims are now doing this to
us.the difference is, in an arab world they
will stone you to death,were as in this
country they bow to these ppl in case it
offends them.how many cases in the papers
have you read were we are no longer aloud to
do something in case it offends them(police
sniffer dogs,christmas decks in shops) the
list goes on. one great man said when in
rome do as the romans do,britain is a
christian country,if you dont like our rules
sod off home |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
martyn_
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:55:55
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"britain is a
christian country,if you dont like our rules
sod off home."
Who says Britain is a Christian country? I
think Britain is secular. And that's how it
should stay. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-17
Time: 23:59:29
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The only fault with your reading Martyn, is
that everybody else is either stupid, naive
or both. We are well aware Iraq was a big
mistake - yet to simpy stand by and let every
unstable country fall into Islamic/theocratic
hands would be downright irresponsible of the
West. This is a geopolitical struggle - some
might even call it a clash of civilisations.
Should we stand by and see an Islamic
Republic of Afghanistan - Iraq - a nuclear
armed Iran - or an Israel so besieged, it
resorts to nuclear weapons? We do have a big
part to play - especially in the Middle-East
- mistakes will be made, but to simply walk
away would be the height of irresponsibility.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:03:54
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socrates:A like some of your post even if a
dont always agree with you,but how can it be
ok for us to own these weapons and not
everyone else.Bit of a double standard
there.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
dougmckenzie
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:08:59
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I don't really where to begin. If killing
hundreds of thousands of your own people is
not genocide, then what is?
Please don't ask me to quantify or qualify
that statement - if you have access to a
computer and can spell the word 'google'
you'll be able to see for yourself.
Ask yourself this - why invade a country and
then pay them the going rate for their oil?
We probably won't bomb Iran, but I won't hold
my breath on Israel not doing it (with covert
support from the USA).
The next targets will be in Africa, not the
Middle East. Anyone like to take a bet on
that? |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:13:19
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Its the way the Global situation has evolved
since WW2 - we cannot turn back the clock.
But the reality of it is that proliferation
of these weapons will make the world far more
dangerous - your'e right in the sentiment
that the 'Powers' should be drastically
reducing stockpiles - but to use the argument
'we have - so should everyone else' implies
rational equivelancy.
Who would you think should have them? Sudan?
Ethiopia? Zimbawe? How about Hamas? Libya?
The flaw in your question seems obvious. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:13:46
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dougmckenzie:There more too it than
that.Destroy there city first then send in
U.S.A contractors to rebuild it and charge
them for it lol. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:16:09
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Tic cause if iran got hold of nuclear
weapons they would attack isreal then isreal
would respond and then my friend you have
world war 3.
I agree there should be no nuclear weapons,
but i would rather be in a position of
strenght rather than a position of weakness.
islam is going through a stage of reformation
and its bringing everyone down with it.
thats why u see suicide bombers in iraq,
these suicide bombers can see iraq is heading
for a peaceful time ,and they cant bare the
facts there intepritation of islam isnt
listened to, so they become marters to prove
there belief and devoutness.
Theres no way on earth should an islamic
country have a nuclear arsenal.
They have no respect for life and how can you
deal with ppl who do notfear death?. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:19:15
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My personal opinion is that we are engaged in
a Global struggle with a resurgent Islam,
with the main battle ground being the
Middle-East. In the final analysis, the
outcome will be decided on strength of will,
canny diplomacy and of course, weapons. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:23:26
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depends how many suicide people there is out
there tho tic?
If we gave away our nuclear weapons? do you
honesly think the likes of iran would say oh
look there being nice we wont attack them?
cause mate you may consider them, but
sometimes your enemy doesnt consider you, and
the only person and persons that will be
killed is you and i. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:24:12
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Put it this way Tic - who would you rather
have nuclear weapons - someone like Iran or a
Western nation? My guess would be that even
most muslims would opt for the Western
option. To have a country like Iran - run by
clerics - who still send written messages
down a well in Qom beseeching the Mhadi to
return to destroy the West, having a nuclear
device is a nightmare. Think about it! |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:28:36
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Am listening to what you guys are saying but
you cant stop it.Its only a matter of time
befor they get nuclear.Thats the thing with a
deterrent it only works if one side has it
lol.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:32:07
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The russians and the chinese veto actions
against iran, simply because they know full
well iran is planning an attack sometime in
the near future,
The chinese and russians like some islamic
countries dislike the west simply because of
our freedom.
Only differance between islamic countries and
russia and china is the china and russia fear
mutual destruction.
Just say the cold war was between iran and
the us instead of russia and the usa.
well the earth would currently be 10000c.
there would be no earth and there would no
anyone.
I heard someone saying we could live below
the surface of the planet? what for over a
million years?.
the fact the earth would be coverd in a gas
cloud that would be a mile thick ,eventually
the planet would cool down to tempertures
similar to pluto,
nah no way should we allow iran to have a
nuclear weapon. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
dougmckenzie
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:36:34
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Jolly wrote:
"Theres no way on earth should an islamic
country have a nuclear arsenal."
Err, Jolly, do you not read the newspapers or
listen/watch the news?
Pakistan (a predominately Muslim state)
recently carried out a nuclear explosion as a
warning to to India who had done the same a
few days earlier.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:39:04
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doug yeah and its worrying isnt it? just
imagine if a corrupt dictator took over?.
what you suggesting then? are you all for it?
lets hand em out like sweeties.
does anyone have any idea the destructive
foce a nuclear weapon causes?. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:43:20
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tic yeah we are so bad and these countries
are so wonderful? i suggest you go move there
if you admire em so much, either that or shut
up being an hypocrite |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jollysghost
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 00:52:58
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cause tic your denying the obvious! whos side
are you on? if you honestly think that we
should just be friendly with an enemy that
sees us as infedel and worthless and would
kill us as soon as look at us then am afraid
i was wrong ya not ahypocrite ya misguided.
If you think us in the west are wrong and you
live here go to saudi arabia.
weave explained why we need nuclear and other
weapons. but you seem to ignore them facts.
do you actually care for people in the uk?. i
would never hurt another but when it comes to
me and them am afraid its me.
islamic countries and countries like china
burma etc opress there ppl to an extent of
life being worthless.
and given the chance they would opress me and
you too and if we dont listen we would be
killed plain and simple.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 01:03:09
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jollymansghost:As different cultures and
religions meet theres going to be differences
.And there not all fanatics by the way.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
dark_lashes
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 02:28:30
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ok doug for a start America would not send
there boys to be peace keepers if there
was'nt anything in it for america as a
country trying to stay on top, george bush (
wearing his jeans and t-shirt ) has send his
boys over for a bit of fun and poke fun into
any nation who says they won't trade with
america, basically bush and his
administration are showing everyone the way
it is, " obviously america can't get through
after having talks so he's send a few heavies
over you no what i mean |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
dark_lashes
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 02:30:28
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what actually is terror ? its action without
warning. Britain and america give plenty of
warning before going into action but these
terrorists don't |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
jimiwa6
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 02:31:03
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there will always be wars conflicts "peace
keeping" is the most hated word..no one wants
us in these places and its typical the way
the news show all the crap out...war is
agaisnt the taliban in my eyes from a
personal experience its no where near over. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 22:08:30
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How liberated is Afghanistan?.Since the
fighting is still going on, and the Afghan
government is reduced to pleading with the
U.S. to stop killing innocent civilians. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 23:02:41
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Alright socrates.Tell me again what was the
point of this war?.To liberate an oppressive
regime.Yeah and replace it with Americas.You
read in the papers and hear on t.v that the
troops are fighting terrorists.No They are
fighting the Afghan people. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 23:10:17
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You know that auld saying (One mans
terrorists is anothers freedom fighter).Well
the U.S is over blowing up there country and
the Afghans are giveing them it back.
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 23:21:13
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Except they are mostly Chechens/Pakistanis or
Saudis. Make no mistake - Afghanistan is a
war of ideological hegemony - anything else
is secondary. The West can't afford to lose
to Islamic fundamentalism - to do so would be
tantamount to a retreat from here and the
Middle -East. It's a choice between Pax
Americana (West) or dominant Theocracy. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
tic1888
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 23:25:31
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You know it was nothing to do with us but
blair had to jump in there.This war will be
here for ever.Its not an army there fighting
its the people. |
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Re: There Is No War On Terror. |
socrates
Date:
2008-07-18
Time: 23:38:49
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I think we have to put it into perspective -
Afghanistan has always been virtually
ungovernable - the War Lords were bought off
by the US and given high office to try
placate the lands. Don't forget, it is not
only the US fighting in Afghanistan - the
whole of NATO is there (Europe)- so refer to
The West. Personally, I think ANYTHING is
better than The Taleban - we should stick it
out until they are defeated - but Pakistan
will have a large say in this. |
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